tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post3567912968711823038..comments2022-04-11T13:28:31.141-07:00Comments on Devin Hunter's So[u]lutions Blog: Tolerating Men and Transgender individuals in Goddess spirituality.Devin Hunterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05364131588511901047noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-18203081009184784352012-11-15T03:14:38.910-08:002012-11-15T03:14:38.910-08:00I discovered your web site via Google while lookin...I discovered your web site via Google while looking for a related subject, lucky for me your web site came up, its a great website. I have bookmarked it in my Google bookmarks. You really are a phenomenal person with a brilliant mind!<br /><br /><a href="http://www.dateats.com/" rel="nofollow">transgender</a> hildahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07730252576275557221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-72886046566492829602012-01-07T01:11:15.710-08:002012-01-07T01:11:15.710-08:00I loved your blog and even though a part of me isn...I loved your blog and even though a part of me isn't surprised by the poor attitudes you've received as a male representative of the goddess, it still pains me to hear that my cynical side was proven right... especially by those that are spiritual teachers/healers. I guess that's a life lesson they'll either figure out or not, but it boggles my mind that gender bigotry continues to occur within Wicca and similar paths (especially by those who are supposed to be "more enlightened"... I know priests/priestesses are still human, but a lot of spiritual work, understanding, and experience is accomplished before one can/should be considered a spiritual guide to others. My optimistic side was hoping that most of the ego-based insecurity, hatred and snobbery would have been shed during the journey towards priest/priestess-hood. Anyway, back to my original point...).<br /><br />The big thing that some people forget is that "Feminine" and "Masculine" are traits/qualities/energies while Female and Male are 2 of a list of gender identities. You can be any gender and exhibit feminine and masculine qualities... both exist in all of us. Some of us resonate more with a certain energy over another... just as a certain pantheon can speak to us more than another. And yes, sometimes the pantheon in question is getting the seeker in touch with their ancestral roots, but there are many that follow Egyptian deities (or Celtic, or Eastern European, or Roman, or South American, etc...) without having any racial ties to that region in this lifetime. And yes, walking with the Goddess could make a female feel closer with her womanhood, but Goddess driven spiritual paths are not a girls only club house thingy. You're called to whom you're called to... and a Goddess (or a God) wouldn't attract you to their path if they didn't want you walking on it.<br /><br />So in a very ramble-y way, I'm saying that I agree with you, lol. And also, thanks for sharing your story :)Ymahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18108975489688361206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-42937782315720114722011-12-30T07:22:12.328-08:002011-12-30T07:22:12.328-08:00I've read this a dozen times and always wanted...I've read this a dozen times and always wanted to leave a comment, but could not think of the words. Finally, I realized that CS Lewis had said it already. <br /><br />"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."<br /><br />Our outer shell should not matter when it comes to faith. It's what's in our hearts, what we feel in our souls that matters.KrisMrsBBradleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14988742743150495260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-47961875827449086242011-12-21T20:09:02.939-08:002011-12-21T20:09:02.939-08:00I agree with you, Devin, there can be a lot of int...I agree with you, Devin, there can be a lot of intolerance (current usage) in modern Paganism. My path is Sumerian, and I never feel at home in the general community of mostly Wiccans/Celts. Come on over to my FB group, if you'd like. I don't care who follows what path, only that people play nice together. https://www.facebook.com/groups/203531796369996/Michele Brierehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16570529058148454991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-87162782563687414392011-12-21T18:14:32.990-08:002011-12-21T18:14:32.990-08:00Devin, what a wonderful post. This is something th...Devin, what a wonderful post. This is something that I know has been weighing on your mind for some time. Happy to see you found the words to express this issue.Elayne Lockharthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10825020714466152656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-60754525067188533732011-12-20T22:22:41.957-08:002011-12-20T22:22:41.957-08:00I am with you fully on this Devin.
We are all to...I am with you fully on this Devin. <br /><br />We are all together in this world. In my own view we do all have our different things to offer the Goddess, as well as the God. The Feminine as well as the Masculine are needed. <br /><br />It is sad that from going from one extreme many seem to go to the completely opposite extreme. Completely side stepping the middle ground. I agree with the words of equality, and truly try to live with that view in my life. My spiritual family is my spiritual family. The Dianic path, while not my path does have a lot to teach that I can learn.<br /><br />A very strong post David, thank you for writing it.<br /><br />Brett, Co-Host of The Young Witches show on Pagans Tonight and Main Street Universe.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265780501973672160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-43904849116318895162011-12-20T17:04:46.891-08:002011-12-20T17:04:46.891-08:00Thank you all for even reading this! I had no idea...Thank you all for even reading this! I had no idea that the post would get circulated the way it has! I truly appreciate your time and interest. <br /><br />I don't even know where to begin to respond! I will be posting part 2 to this tonight Gods willing.<br /><br />To respond to you directly aediculaantinoi:<br /><br />Truth be told I haven't the words I wish I did to respond- merely because it deserves a response! :P So I will try my best.<br /><br />Gender goes much deeper into our psyche than the physical bits, the hormones, and the typical roles. I find myself feeling that more and more gender is a human production. I find that when I look through history I see a shift from equality of the sexes to dominance over one or the other and it all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth! I am a man who loves men, I love their bodies, their smells, their chest hair- the animal inside of me loves men. I expect the animal in all of us has some sort of preference. Aside from my lust for other men there is no other division in my mind between the sexes. As I said in the post it's a non-issue for me and always has been. <br /><br />I can not speak to a woman's perspective, a trans perspective, nor an inner-sex perspective. Do I believe we all have the same right to worship, find divinity, and do whatever it is we feel the need to do? YES! <br /><br />I suppose bottom line I just think we are all star-children. I can only speak to my life and path. I believe that placing a monopoly on Goddess is anathema to the greatness of the work. Goddess should be shared not restricted. The only fix there is to this is to be the change we want to see in the world. I can support you and others who feel drawn to Goddess, and hell you come to our circles and be with us- people who don't care what sex you are. But if you feel the need then circles and mysteries you have experienced should be shared! I hope I addressed your question- I found your response to be incredibly fascinating and eye-opening! Inspiring!Devin Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05364131588511901047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-47788067621014708702011-12-20T15:16:50.655-08:002011-12-20T15:16:50.655-08:00This is a good post, Devin, and thank you for writ...This is a good post, Devin, and thank you for writing it! (I came to it via a link that Star did on her Pantheon blog post today over at Patheos.)<br /><br />I just have one question, and I hope you don't think of it as nit-picking or as in any way attempting to undermine what you've done here. (Usually that's a bad way to preface a question, as what follows will tend to do exactly that, but...!?!) I agree that there is a lot of anti-male sentiment that can be found in various sections of more liberal social groups; I also agree that there is an awful lot of trans exclusion in all areas of society, and modern paganism in almost all of its forms is no exception. But, I wonder about one other thing which you've not mentioned, and whether or not it has impacted your thoughts (and if it hasn't, you're certainly not alone in that): what about those of us who are neither male nor female, and who are not cisgendered but aren't trans either? While you did mention the ACLG several times above, it is not my own experience that my gender is either androgynous, or that it is in any way a kind of mix, etc., it's simply a further possibility, and there are many other further possibilities as far as I have known and experienced the genders of other people in similar positions to myself.<br /><br />I'm certainly not suggesting you are doing this, but I have experienced a kind of active refusal to take such people as myself seriously (and not just in modern paganism), and that even though trans people are often treated quite poorly, they are given at least some credit for "picking one" of the commonly recognized genders and going with it, rather than being what we actually are while being told that what we are doesn't exist and we're simply deluded.<br /><br />It's not something I'm asking you to answer, or to "fix," but something I'm just wondering aloud here...If you have any thoughts or insights, I'd be very interested in hearing them!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-9855823019553329092011-12-20T14:07:56.723-08:002011-12-20T14:07:56.723-08:00Devin,
I found myself reading over the post again....Devin,<br />I found myself reading over the post again. It is sooo good. As I read it the first time I honestly didn’t know where you were going to go with it. I was pleasantly surprised. I didn’t expect the sharing of such deeply personal history. I feel blessed that you are willing to share it. Reading what you experienced has spurred me to sit and reflect on my past, what I experienced growing up and my beliefs back then. I was raised Lutheran but I never had the connection to the God figure of Christianity. I don’t think I had a connection to any spiritual figure for a long time. Now I am to the Goddess. I have also felt the frustration of the female dominance when it comes to Wiccan teaching or authors. Yea some of them make a brief mention about us men but it is usually short and devoid of the flourish afforded the rest of the book.<br /><br />We are innately born with both sexes and even after the dominate one emerges the other is still there, sitting in silence but yet influencing us in ways we may not realize. A call to the Goddess is that recessive side, the female side. It is my belief that to deny our female aspect is to deny the Goddess and all she has to offer. I may be a male but I am damned sure not going to ignore the wonders of the Goddess no matter what anyone says.<br />Blessed Be.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13810879342537906368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-7640973086599205362011-12-20T13:51:37.339-08:002011-12-20T13:51:37.339-08:00Hi, Khi.
First off, let me thank you for pointin...Hi, Khi. <br /><br />First off, let me thank you for pointing out that, yes, sexism is sexism. You're right. <br /><br />When I say "reverse sexism" I specifically mean the attitude that some feminists take towards men. There is this weird belief that gay people can not be homophobic -- we can. Similarly, I've heard it argued that black people can not be racist -- they can be. Likewise, I have heard it said that some feminists can not be sexist -- yes, they can. <br /><br />When I say "reverse sexism" I simply mean that those who claim they can not be sexist quite often are. In this regard, I view reverse sexism as equal to sexism but based on the obscene notion that somehow because Group A discriminated against Group B at some point, Group B now has the right to discriminate against Group A. <br /><br />You're right in that reverse sexism is a misnomer. However I will continue to use the term to imply a reactionary stance towards gender bias. <br /><br />Maybe a better term would be "reactionary sexism."Vick D'Mentalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16787164937259381252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-56362211928086702282011-12-20T11:57:12.725-08:002011-12-20T11:57:12.725-08:00I am not in the Goddess tradition but I can only i...I am not in the Goddess tradition but I can only imagine the divisiveness those who are must be struggling with. I am also heartened that Devin found the courage and strength to speak up about his experiences both personal and communal. Thank you, Brother. In striving for reconciliation, you are a true Priest.<br /><br />I did want to mention something about terminology, however, regarding Vick D'Mental's comment. As this conversation unfolds, I would like to discourage us all from using the term "reverse sexism" as no such thing exists.<br /><br />In fact, sexism is a one way street - that of institutionalized male privilege. The patriarchal cornerstone upon which all of our institutions stand. Sexism, like Racism, is the equation of "Privilege + Power". As such, Reverse Sexism, like Reverse Racism, is a misnomer and one that ignores the immense privilege held by those with institutionally-backed power, ignoring histories of subjugation.<br /><br />Discrimination, however, might be apropos. Possibly even Bigotry. But Sexism, like Racism, speaks to a top-down affair - not across lines.<br /><br />Be Blessed and May We All Keep RisingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-84771929336997387052011-12-20T10:50:49.858-08:002011-12-20T10:50:49.858-08:00There is an overwhelming reverse sexism that has c...There is an overwhelming reverse sexism that has crept into Wicca over the years. It is driving the male of the species away from Wicca completely. <br /><br />Recently I was studying with a third degree priestess of the Unicorn Tradition here in Alabama. When she didn't like something I posted on my FaceBook, she rushed to correct me. When she realized that I wasn't going to stand for her correction (because I was posting from a Chaos Magick POV) she accused of "mansplaining" thing to her. <br /><br />Mansplaining? Really? What sexist tripe! What a SHAMEFUL mark of an unenlightened soul!<br /><br />I have since walked away from Wicca because so many priestesses are such sexist snobs it is disgusting. Thanks for this wonderful article. As for me, I'll stick with the Golden Dawn trad.Vick D'Mentalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16787164937259381252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-33281271384002221982011-12-20T09:55:18.114-08:002011-12-20T09:55:18.114-08:00Thank you for this post, I hope it makes it's ...Thank you for this post, I hope it makes it's way around the community as it has many teachable moments.<br />Namaste to you as well.<br />-Kat, Organizer of Central Maryland PagansKat of EmKatCreationshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01162943067947155558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-41908624205504982812011-12-20T08:07:43.445-08:002011-12-20T08:07:43.445-08:00Thank you for discussing what is a very sensitive ...Thank you for discussing what is a very sensitive yet important reality of pagan life.<br /><br />In my opinion Wicca, and its Neo-Pagan offshoots, was destined for feminine dominance ever since Gerald Gardner created a religion that venerated a Goddess as the pre-eminent deity. Now I don’t think this was Gerald Gardner’s intention. I’ve been reading a lot lately about the early days of Wicca and frankly the man comes off as a homophobic chauvinist, but I believe Wicca and the rest of the Neo-Pagan religions attract larger numbers of women for this reason. <br /><br />Let’s face it. The dominant monotheistic religions in Western societies are patriarchal. I was raised Episcopalian. I can remember as a child the frustration my mother expressed over the lack of parity in the Church. <br /><br />So here is this magical religion that venerates a pre-eminent Goddess and then along comes the 60s and the feminist movement. The two were ripe for a convergence.<br /><br />Of course that doesn’t mean the Feminist Dianics are any more correct than the Christians. In my opinion both patriarchal and matriarchal religions miss the mark. The One, The Star God/dess, God Herself, is beyond female or male, beyond feminine or masculine; beyond straight or gay; beyond transgender; beyond matriarchy or patriarchy. S/he is both sexes and other sexes we don’t even know about. Think of a great blinding diamond. Every God and Goddess is but a shining facet of an infinite whole. S/he is the Father-Son-and the Holy Ghost, S/he is Mary Mother of God, S/he is Nirvana, S/he is Isis-Apollo-Diania-Aradia-Cernunnos-etc., S/he is you, S/he is me, S/he is every sentient being that has ever existed or ever will. Each facet is complete in and of itself, distinct, but also part of something greater.<br /><br />To be in the presence of God Herself is to experience a LOVE and ECSTASY that defies human comprehension. I experienced HIR for only a brief period in my childhood. I believe that is why Victor Anderson advocated achieving a state of innocence the Feri call the Black Heart of Innocence. It takes perfect trust to experience perfect love. <br /><br />It is easier to understand the divine as a something similar to ourselves. That is why polytheism is so attractive, which is only reinforced when we have actual spiritual experiences with the different gods and goddesses. The sexual mysteries are also worthwhile in understanding ourselves and our place in this world. But these things are only stepping stones to a greater whole. The truth is men and women are more alike than we are different. If a witch or wizard can accept this truth then s/he will know beyond any doubt that there is no place for sexism in the Craft.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-94374390688627315.post-65914653889153007682011-12-19T23:55:21.414-08:002011-12-19T23:55:21.414-08:00wow, i guess i dont really know about this... i ha...wow, i guess i dont really know about this... i have heard a little dialog here, and there, but what i can't believe is that anyone would be singled out.... The history of the goddess for me is loving mother... loving all...and for anyone to choose to separate anyone of us from loving the divine ... is horrible... i too have tried to find more than what i was raised upon, and i have been abused as a child as well, and found the goddess to turn to ...and I'm proud of who i am, and all my brothers, and my sisters... we are all family... didn't we learn anything, after all those innocent people who were tortured, and killed for their beliefs... Now we have freedom to choose to believe what we want...I commend you Devin for standing up, and choosing to have a voice everyone gets so afraid that they allow themselves to be victimized....I'm so blessed to have you as my teacher, my brother, my friend, and I'm sorry that there are still prejudices, even within this community....love to all my spiritual sisters, and brothers... we all should all be loved for who we are... Goddess is love......so must it be...babydoll2270https://www.blogger.com/profile/10431344434441009629noreply@blogger.com